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Golden Hat #17
Author MessageGolden Hat #17
Bolg
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Post: #41
RE: Golden Hat #17Bolg 04-27-2012

khedyarl Wrote:
My only concern is that a maximum of three crewmembers makes the Ogre Slave on the Dreadquake inadmissable to this competition, which is unfortunate.  Is it possible, Nico, to change the ruling to be "If the miniature is a Forgeworld or Games Workshop miniature that comes stock with four crew, than it is permitted"?  Or something similar?


You can just leave out one of the other crew members from the pic and include the ogre.



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04-27-2012 08:52 PM
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zobo1942
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Post: #42
RE: Golden Hat #17zobo1942 04-27-2012

This may be a silly question, but if we use ThommyH's rulebook as our Chaos Dwarf 'canon' (hahaha), would the 'Warmachines' be anything listed under 'Doom Harness', 'Doom Cannon' and 'Infernal Engines'?

Just curious....

04-27-2012 09:01 PM
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Lord Aldades
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RE: Golden Hat #17Lord Aldades 04-28-2012

Hmmm, where did I put my Swivel Guns :-D


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04-28-2012 01:19 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #44
RE: Golden Hat #17Nicodemus 04-28-2012

Bolg Wrote:

khedyarl Wrote:
My only concern is that a maximum of three crewmembers makes the Ogre Slave on the Dreadquake inadmissable to this competition, which is unfortunate.  Is it possible, Nico, to change the ruling to be "If the miniature is a Forgeworld or Games Workshop miniature that comes stock with four crew, than it is permitted"?  Or something similar?


You can just leave out one of the other crew members from the pic and include the ogre.


Exactly.


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04-28-2012 02:39 AM
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Kera foehunter
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Post: #45
RE: Golden Hat #17Kera foehunter 04-28-2012

Hummmmmmmmmm    War machine


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04-28-2012 05:23 AM
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clam
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Post: #46
RE: Golden Hat #17clam 04-28-2012

Da Crusha Wrote:
it kinda sucks that there is all of this debate over cool bases specifically for the hellcannon. that thing has a huge base now and if we decorate it so it won't be boring then we'll be penalized. other warmachines dont come with bases so its not as big of a deal, but the hell cannon specifically has to have a big base now.

on the other hand, I know the competition is about making a warmachine and not about making cool decorations.


You are so right - and you got to ask yourself one question - does it actually makes any difference? Why is it the organizer seems so strict on these matter's every single time? If it's clear from the start, what can it possible harm, that a guy/girl want to spend time on a base as well? We all know that what a great base can do to the overall apperance of a miniature, so how can that be such a bad thing?
Will an average diorama base give you any advantages compared to a non-based awesome painted War machine? Is scenery/terrain that more easy doing - that you could just slap paint on a war machine and hide it with a cool base?, and then do "better" than a great painted cannon? Hey, would you guys please give us some credit, here. I'm quite sure that the entry with the best overall appeal will get most votes - and win (if that matters to you). And think it's in our best interest that the cools entry win's and not the most accurate/game legal one.

I find base restrictions okay when theme is themed around a specific entry in a particular army list - like the K'daai one we just had. This one - however - was meant as an open category with an open wider theme - that does't call for these kind of regulations - and I think it's put boundaries on the artistic freedom, where it's not needed. In my eye the only one that benefit's from these restrictions are the hard core 8th ed gamers, that can pick the right base size.

And yes, GH is about having fun, but will once again ask if we could please keep it simple. This could have been so easy: "Chaos Dwarf themed War Machine, 1-3 crews, max size/base 100x150mm." - but sadly "no". Once again we can fear quality control, banned entries, questionable votings - you name it. Almost killing all the fun before we  even get started Sad




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This post was last modified: 04-28-2012 05:57 AM by clam.

04-28-2012 05:49 AM
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cornixt
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Post: #47
RE: Golden Hat #17cornixt 04-28-2012

What I am hearing here is "I like to have larger scenic bases and the rules don't allow it" or "I have a small model and want to make it seem more impressive with a big base".

We want this to be about the models, not a scene with a war machine in it. The category is wide as it is, you've got rockets, cannon, flame throwers all in it. If you can't fulfill a simple base requirement then you have much bigger problems.


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04-28-2012 10:29 AM
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Zanko
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Post: #48
RE: Golden Hat #17Zanko 04-28-2012

My entry (so nothing extraordinary happens) will be a scratched build one with an ordinary base (of unknown size yet)! Wink


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This post was last modified: 04-28-2012 10:36 AM by Zanko.

04-28-2012 10:36 AM
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Ghrask Dragh
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Post: #49
RE: Golden Hat #17Ghrask Dragh 04-28-2012

Do Golems count? and if so whats the correct base size?

You know, for the miniature I will plan forever and a day then not enter and keep my record of being one of the longest standing members never to have entered a Golden Hat competition (Damn my poor time managment!!!!)

Cheers!


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04-28-2012 10:47 AM
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Hashut's Blessing
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Post: #50
RE: Golden Hat #17Hashut's Blessing 04-28-2012

The rules are simple - the inability to accept those rules is what is taking the fun out of the competition. It's not a new requirement and is fully expected. We're not saying "Make the base as bland as possible", just that it shouldn't overwhelm the miniature being judged. It is an aid to the model - think of a 20mm based character: a textured paint with drybrush, a couple of rocks and a tuft and turf would be fine without detracting and the same principle is due here, just with larger numbers of tuft/turfs/stones or whatever you choose...

End of the day, we produce the competition, place rules to create a level playing field, all competitions (not just ours) have boundaries, it's not a difficult one to stick to and it's not one that's appeared suddenly. I've had a long day and apologise if I seem a bit short of temper, but it's tiring seeing the same complaints come up every time when it's nothing to complain about Sad

Ghrask: I'd say probably not, but I'll wait for another staffer to comment. They're not warmachines as such and don't use crew is my thinking is all.


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04-28-2012 04:59 PM
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Ghrask Dragh
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Post: #51
RE: Golden Hat #17Ghrask Dragh 04-28-2012

Thanks HB, I can now not enter anything with confidence Happy

Look forward to this one though, the new forgeworld stuff is going to make this one great

Cheers!


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04-28-2012 05:05 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Golden Hat #17Hashut's Blessing 04-28-2012

As I said - long day and at a guess. If it's a mech-golem and has a handler it is a machine of war, so it depends on the style as well, I guess! Best to get another staffer to comment though Wink


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04-28-2012 05:08 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #53
RE: Golden Hat #17Grimstonefire 04-28-2012

Most fanlists these days have a Troop Type listed don't they?

I can't imagine there should be problems figuring out if something is a warmachine or monster (mount) based on a specific list.

Not that I care much about how others base their warmachines, but purely as a point of conversation, the Golden Daemon rules for the vehicle category:

Quote:
Although most of these models tend not to be supplied with a base, it is quite acceptable for you to mount the vehicle on a modest base (no more than 20mm larger than the vehicle itself).


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This post was last modified: 04-28-2012 05:22 PM by Grimstonefire.

04-28-2012 05:18 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #54
RE: Golden Hat #17Thommy H 04-28-2012

Unit Type isn't a useful rule of thumb when one of the signature Chaos Dwarf "war machines" is actually a Monster.


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04-28-2012 05:38 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #55
RE: Golden Hat #17Grimstonefire 04-28-2012

To be honest Imo this should purely be for units that are described in their unit type as warmachines.  Takes out the hellcannon, ass cannon and any sort of monster people want to create.

Put everything on a base no larger than 20mm bigger than the machine on all 4 sides as per the GD rules for vehicles.  Perhaps allow 50mm on one side for crew.    

Obviously with some abstract ruling for people doing flying war machines or those that would be unbalanced any other way etc.

Anything else, if people don't like it, paint it up anyway and put in in your blogs!  Simples.


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This post was last modified: 04-28-2012 06:00 PM by Grimstonefire.

04-28-2012 05:56 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #56
RE: Golden Hat #17Thommy H 04-28-2012

Quote:
Takes out the hellcannon, ass cannon and any sort of monster people want to create.


Why is that a good thing?


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04-28-2012 06:08 PM
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Blue in VT
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RE: Golden Hat #17Blue in VT 04-28-2012

Wow... Relax all it's just a painting contest...and with this level of vitriol it's one I'm not sure I'm interested in being a part of.  There is obviously some history here that I'm not aware of...and frankly don't care about.  It's time to set aside ego and pick up paint brushes.

Can't we all just get along?

Cheers! have a beer and chill.

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04-28-2012 06:36 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #58
RE: Golden Hat #17Grimstonefire 04-28-2012

Why is it a bad thing???

If people want to start a contest for monsters right now they can??  Feel free.

I never understood that really.

Staff decided this is for warmachines.  Not monsters.  End of as far as I am concerned.

The hellcannon is just an annoying technicality.  We had this problem last time actually, with things that should just have been monsters.


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This post was last modified: 04-28-2012 07:05 PM by Grimstonefire.

04-28-2012 07:01 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #59
RE: Golden Hat #17Thommy H 04-28-2012

Quote:
The hellcannon is just an annoying technicality.


Or it's something that makes the unit interesting. And the staff haven't decided it's for "war machines" in the sense of the Unit Type "War Machine", hence why it's been clarified that the Hellcannon and Ass Cannon are allowed. Which is the whole reason I pointed out that citing the Unit Type in the case of units in fanlists is not a helpful distinction. Creating a hypothetical situation where this contest is using that as a prerequisite for entering a unit is really neither here nor there. There are some monsters that can be entered already.

Look, we all know what's a display base and what's a gaming base. The strict, completely arbitrary rules are there so that people can't claim ignorance if it comes down to it. Most of us are also fairly good judges of what the term "war machine" might conceivably mean, even when we're dealing with an army that has a steam locomotive that's Unique and a daemon-cannon that's a Monster. It's not hugely complicated, really.


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04-28-2012 07:19 PM
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Bolg
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Post: #60
RE: Golden Hat #17Bolg 04-28-2012

Blue in VT Wrote:
Wow... Relax all it's just a painting contest...and with this level of vitriol it's one I'm not sure I'm interested in being a part of.  There is obviously some history here that I'm not aware of...and frankly don't care about.  It's time to set aside ego and pick up paint brushes.

Can't we all just get along?

Cheers! have a beer and chill.

Blue


I'll drink to that (:

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This post was last modified: 04-28-2012 08:36 PM by Bolg.

04-28-2012 08:35 PM
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