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AGPO
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Post: #1
AdvertisingAGPO 03-22-2011

Hi all,

What with the growing popularity of the site and of chaos dwarfs, there's been an increase in the number of adverts and questions about advertising on the site. The staff would like to post this clarrification of site rules as regards businesses on the site.

Whilst we're keen to see all potential new chaos dwarf minis, we decided a while back not to allow advertising on the site. There were many reasons for this, but the most important is that we've had IP issues before, which created a lot of issues for the staff and ate into our time for the hobby and improving the site. We also don't want the Chaos Dwarf and Wargames Discussion sections to become filled with ads, which isn't their main purpose. That said, we think it's great when our members share a discovery of new models or start up their own sculpting business. We've therefore drafted the following guidelines as to what is and isn't acceptable.

What you CAN do:
- Post a link to any Chaos Dwarf models or potential conversion/proxy minis you discover to Chaos Dwarf Discussion or Ideas and Advice respectively.
- Post a small signature banner advertising your own sculpts for sale and/or hobby related business
- Create an account for your business to respond to feedback in pre-existing threads only
- Maintain a single blog in the Army Blogs on the creation of your Chaos Dwarf figures for sale or otherwise

What you CANNOT do:
- Post multiple threads advertising your own minis and/or company
- Create new threads every time you finish a new mini you intend to sell (single blogs only)
- Create an account to plug your company
- Have excessively large adverts in your signature (they slow up the page loads for those on phones and with slower internet connections)
- Post threads advertising non-Chaos Dwarf related producers you are associated with
- Post links to sales of second hand minis anywhere outside of The Market Place

If you have any doubts over whether a thread breaks these rules then please PM one of the staff. If a thread does cross the line then we'll delete it and PM you with an explanation. The staff's decision is final and discussions will not be entered into. We have to be neutral with this so exceptions won't be made for longstanding members or people we happen to like. Sorry guys but it's a lot harder to justify banning releantless spammers/advertisers if we're making exceptions for others.

Bossyness over. Best wishes,

AGPO


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03-22-2011 05:19 PM
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nitroglysarine
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Post: #2
RE: Advertisingnitroglysarine 03-22-2011

Quote:
- Post threads advertising non-Chaos Dwarf related producers you are associated with


I'm guessing that means financially associated with. Say if you are sculpting something yourself that isn't CD/hobgoblin based then it a no-no to try and show them on here for the purposes of sale/casting?


This post was last modified: 03-22-2011 05:35 PM by nitroglysarine.

03-22-2011 05:35 PM
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Tarrakk Blackhand
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RE: AdvertisingTarrakk Blackhand 03-22-2011

So is my announcing that I'm hosting 'ard Boys out, or is it not as that's not really a "Sale" per say?


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03-22-2011 05:50 PM
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clam
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RE: Advertisingclam 03-23-2011

AGPO Wrote:
What you CAN do:
- Post a link to any Chaos Dwarf models or potential conversion/proxy minis you discover to Chaos Dwarf Discussion or Ideas and Advice respectively.


Are you sure? 3 months ago we decided that the Chaos Dwarf Section was for GW Chaos Dwarfs products alone - http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...p?tid=8640

If there is a change here, I think you should change these guidelines, too.

nitroglysarine Wrote:

Quote:
- Post threads advertising non-Chaos Dwarf related producers you are associated with


I'm guessing that means financially associated with. Say if you are sculpting something yourself that isn't CD/hobgoblin based then it a no-no to try and show them on here for the purposes of sale/casting?


Hopefully not. Think it means that if a professional company signs up here they can post CD relevant stuff. But anything else is a no-go. Really do not hope that if Sjoerdo or Baggronor or some else - do some cool sculpts they can still show them here in the hobby section.




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This post was last modified: 03-23-2011 11:07 AM by clam.

03-23-2011 06:01 AM
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Willmark
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RE: AdvertisingWillmark 03-23-2011

Much like anything we are trying to walk a fine line. What we don't want is the site to become is a place to just post for advertising's sake alone. The primary focus of the site being chaos dwarfs should reflect that if someone wants  to advertise.

Now it could be argued that this is a warhammer site that happens to focus on Chaos Dwarfs. That is where the advertising comes into play with how much there should or should not be.

As far as which forum the Staff might need to huddle again.




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03-23-2011 12:56 PM
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cornixt
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RE: Advertisingcornixt 03-23-2011

clam Wrote:

AGPO Wrote:
What you CAN do:
- Post a link to any Chaos Dwarf models or potential conversion/proxy minis you discover to Chaos Dwarf Discussion or Ideas and Advice respectively.


Are you sure? 3 months ago we decided that the Chaos Dwarf Section was for GW Chaos Dwarfs products alone - http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...p?tid=8640

If there is a change here, I think you should change these guidelines, too.


It hasn't changed, I think you misunderstood the use of the word "respectively" in there.


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03-23-2011 02:12 PM
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clam
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RE: Advertisingclam 03-23-2011

Ehh! - no, don't think so - Grims has clearly stated:

Grimstonefire Wrote:
We've decided that product announcements for all non-GW models will be moved to Wargame News and Discussion from now on. Unless people are just discussing it for converting etc, in which case it will probably go into the Ideas and Advice section.



So everything non-GW Chaos Dwarfs related was supposed to go into Wargame News and Discussion - but you now want them back in the Chaos Dwarf Discussion sub section. So it's a change - and the guide should be changed, too.




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This post was last modified: 03-23-2011 03:29 PM by clam.

03-23-2011 03:25 PM
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cornixt
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RE: Advertisingcornixt 03-23-2011

AGPO didn't state GW or otherwise. If it helps you sleep at night, I'll change it to "Post a link to any GW Chaos Dwarf models" instead.


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Tarrakk Blackhand
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RE: AdvertisingTarrakk Blackhand 03-23-2011

Guys...as a suggestion, why not open a new sub-forum called "Advertising" (ok, think of a better name here) and let people advertise their models, comic books, hobby stores, and whatever there. Put it in the Market Place section as well, so it doesn't distract from the rest of the site and people that want to buy something from The Market Place will also be able to puruse the stuff from the businesses in their own sub-forum as well.

Anyone advertising outside of that Thread could get in trouble or banned.

I think there is a need for this because there's probably a lot of us on here who want to promote their business, but don't want to step on toes. And since people want to buy Chaos Dwarfs and all things related to them, GW or not, it might be a great idea for this in the future as we grow and bring in a new crowd.


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03-23-2011 06:59 PM
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clam
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RE: Advertisingclam 03-24-2011

cornixt Wrote:
AGPO didn't state GW or otherwise. If it helps you sleep at night, I'll change it to "Post a link to any GW Chaos Dwarf models" instead.


Hey, take it easy here, my friend - just trying to help you guys. Grim has just put quite some effort into moving non-GW-related chaos dwarfs threads from the Chaos Dwarf Section to the Wargames News section. He changed the description on the forums and made the 'Forum note on Non GW 'Chaos Dwarf' announcements' - all saying that anything not GW Chaos Dwarfs goes into the Wargamers section. And now this official statement tells people to do otherwise. You don't make it easy for users and don't make it easy for yourselves - IMO. But why not make it nice and simple. Any evil dwarfs wether its GW, Grenadier, Essex, Hasslefree, theBattleForge 'Chaos Dwarfs' or Bederken's Dvergs, Mantic's Kaos Dwarfs/Abyssal Dwarfs or GEMs Dwarfs - they all go nice and easy into the Wargamers Section. And yes, proxies for a Kollosus, Golem, Cannon or .. goes nice and easy into ideas and advice. Til we can have a prober sub section for plugin suitable miniatures.

But then again, why should I care, I'm not advertising, anyway. Im just doing 'public service' Wink

@Tarrakk
I agree, and said a few times before. I think we should have a kind of product news and reviews section - no matter what company is releasing or selling it. But it still needs to have some relevance to the Chaos Dwarfs/fantasy wargaming IMO




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This post was last modified: 03-28-2011 04:00 PM by clam.

03-24-2011 03:04 AM
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AGPO
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RE: AdvertisingAGPO 03-26-2011

To be fair I could have made that clearer, it was intended as GW Chaos Dwarfs in the chaos dwarfs discussion section.

@ Clam: What you're doing doesn't count as advertising, as you're not trying to plug your own products/services, so it doesn't matter either way.

As I said in the OP, we made a concious decision to go for no advertising on the site, partly because of run-ins with GW Legal in the past, and partly for flood control. One of our biggest time sinks as staff is discussing whether or not something that has been complained about is a rules violation and how to deal with it. If we do that for each indviviual advertising case it'd be all we ever did on the site. Having an absolutist approach on this makes things run much more smoothly.

As an example: imagine you do painting commisions. It's fine to mention this in your sig and to showcase the commision models you paint in the off-topic showcase. What isn't allowed is posting lots of other threads in say wargames discussion stating that you're taking on commisions every time you've got a slot free, or advertising the e-bay store you sell your painted minis through in the marketplace.

@Tarrakk - It would be fine for you to maintain a single blog about running a hobby store in say the off-topic section, indeed it would be a pretty interesting subject. What wouldn't be allowed under site rules would be starting a new thread every time your store ran a competition, event or got new stock. Nor could you just keep bumping your blog when it fell down the page, as at that point it's becoming advertising rather than a discussion.


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03-26-2011 11:23 PM
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zobo1942
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RE: Advertisingzobo1942 03-27-2011

I like advertising, especially good context-specific advertising. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't know anything about any other miniature producers, etc... if it weren't for all the 'hey, check it out!' threads.

I think the idea of a 'free-for-all' sub forum would be cool - tweaked so it wouldn't show up in the 'view today's posts' quick link.

However, if you play in someone else's yard, you need to play by their rules.

03-27-2011 01:02 AM
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AGPO
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RE: AdvertisingAGPO 03-27-2011

There's nothing stopping 'hey, check it out!' threads. Members are free to do what Clam is doing and post cool finds, you just can't plug your own company


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03-27-2011 09:13 AM
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Tarrakk Blackhand
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RE: AdvertisingTarrakk Blackhand 03-27-2011

AGPO Wrote:
As an example: imagine you do painting commisions. It's fine to mention this in your sig and to showcase the commision models you paint in the off-topic showcase. What isn't allowed is posting lots of other threads in say wargames discussion stating that you're taking on commisions every time you've got a slot free, or advertising the e-bay store you sell your painted minis through in the marketplace.


AGPO Wrote:
There's nothing stopping 'hey, check it out!' threads. Members are free to do what Clam is doing and post cool finds, you just can't plug your own company.


AGPO Wrote:
@Tarrakk - It would be fine for you to maintain a single blog about running a hobby store in say the off-topic section, indeed it would be a pretty interesting subject. What wouldn't be allowed under site rules would be starting a new thread every time your store ran a competition, event or got new stock. Nor could you just keep bumping your blog when it fell down the page, as at that point it's becoming advertising rather than a discussion.


Please tell me what is and isn't allowed on this web site as all this seems totally contradictory and biased!

On the one hand, you're saying we can't advertise our own companies, or sell our items in The Marketplace. So what is allowed there?

Are you saying that if I, for example, did comission painting, yet I had some commission fall through and I happened to have some 2000 point painted army, that I couldn't then put it in The Market Place to sell off because I owned my own business? Yet others could post their painted army collection if they didn't own their own business? This seems realitivly contradictory and in favor of certian members while others are squashed out.

Also, if someone has an E-bay (Or other type of store) and decided to post something, say a single mini that they wanted to sell, that they can't have a cross-link post in The Market Place to that E-bay site, where there is some kind of secure payment system that members can use to their benefit? Isn't buying, selling and trading what The Market Place is all about? Why lock out the people who want to sell a few things off that might own their own business while another Joe can list his stuff?

So why even allow a Market Place listing on this site?

Also, you're saying that you want me to maintain a blog on my store, yet if I have something to announce, that I can't do it in case it happens to bump my blog up the page?

So if I happen to have a week in which I want to announce that I'm hosting 'Ard Boys, and then some other people come into my store with a model car event or some other thing, and I happen to post 'Ard Boys on Monday, then on Wednesday, I post about the model car event, then on Friday I post the airplane event (As people drop this stuff off to me) that you'd claim I was trying to bump up my Blog for the sake of "Advertising"?  

The whole point behind Blogs are that they're a continual development of the events and thoughts of the one posting the Blog. If mine is chained up to my hobby shop, then the blog would continue to come up as I developed it. Even if I posted things about terrain I was building for 'Ard Boys, it would still bump it to the top of The Market Place each time I posted something, even if I wasn't trying to make a sale. So what am I suppose to discuss then?

Also, the thing I don't understand is that people can post all they want about GW events and other stores that host them in the Wargaming section, yet if I post that I'm hosting one, that's some kind of crime? I know for a certainty that if I posted about 'ard Boys in my blog, that no one would look at it as no one really wants to weed their way through 5 pages of info to see that I'm hosting 'ard Boys.  - Members here want to know and talk about 'ard Boys. Why am I not allowed to tell them that I'm hosting one? It's not like 'Ard Boys comes up every day. 1 post about it once every "Blue Moon" can't kill anyone, can it? I'm not making money off this announcement as it's all covered by GW and there's no entry fee - therefore, it's not a sale. Have I abused this by creating a single thread? Yeah, ok, punish me if I did 200 threads, I can see that...but one?

Also, you're saying that anyone finding a cool mini has free reign to post unlimited threads about it, as long as it's not your own? So indirectly, everyone is allowed to give free advertising to Scibor and his Moscals, or the AOW CD with the Axe in numerous posts all over this web site about 50 times a day (Which ALWAYS happens), yet if someone creates a mini they themselves want to sell, they can't just come right out and say "I made this and want to sell it"? Therefore, Scibor and the rest get known all over CDO wheil the other "Upstart" guys can't even say "Hello"?

I doubt if Scibor or AOW will come to their rescue and will post here saying "Hey! Look at this Cool Mini that Tarrakk built", as an example.

So what are we, as business "Guys" suppose to do in this situation? Harass all the other members in PM's asking them to post a thread saying "Please look my this mini and then make an "indirect advertising thread" about it"?  Or maybe I could send Thommy H $200 and tell him to continually post "Check out Monster Hobbies" threads all over the place? I'm sure that staff would love that one!

There's a simple solution to all of this, and I'm surprised you haven't discussed it yet - MAKE SUB-Forums in The Market Place!

Examples of sub forms could be announcements of new mini's, store events and new store inventory, commision painting, Store "Blogs" (let some of the other guys have them too)and "Check Out This Cool Mini". This way, everyone could do what they wanted for business and it wouldn't detract from threads like "The Showcase" or GW CD announcements, or whatever.

Keep the GW announcements where they are for the sake that CD's are GW's property...etc, and if CD's make their triumphant return, that CDO wants to promote this. - that part of it is all good as it is.

I can understand the concern here being that you don't want to wake up one morning, as a moderator, and find that The Market Place has been spammed and there's 75 identical posts showcasing Scibor's web site, or some other simular thread. (hopefully in that situation, you'd rebuke the poster)

Therefore,  have a simple restriction like  - You can't post your "Market Place" topic in other non-market place threads. And as mods, you guys should be moving this stuff around to the correct threads if someone does and notifying repeating offending members if they're on "Thin Ice" by abusing the policy or whatever.

Or the second solution is to totally eliminate The Market Place entirely.

Here's another thought for you...what about advertising You-Tube web sites? Although these are not making "Sales" as it were, it's still "advertising" for views. What's the policy on this?


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This post was last modified: 03-27-2011 03:35 PM by Tarrakk Blackhand.

03-27-2011 03:25 PM
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Willmark
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RE: AdvertisingWillmark 03-27-2011

A sub forum off the market place might be a viable solution...




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03-27-2011 06:42 PM
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RE: Advertisingtjub 03-28-2011

I have not followed this thread, but a sub forum to the market thread seems like a good idea! Most forums have some kind of are for shops etc to advertise. IMO great for the other users since you might find some stuff there if you are interested and the rest of the forum is clean.


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03-28-2011 12:40 AM
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Tarrakk Blackhand
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RE: AdvertisingTarrakk Blackhand 03-28-2011

FINALLY! Someone IS listening to me!


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03-28-2011 12:43 PM
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RE: Advertisingnitroglysarine 03-28-2011

A sub section might be a cool idea, if you don't want to read it, don't look.


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clam
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RE: Advertisingclam 03-28-2011

Couldn't it be a new section in the 'Main' section. All these sub-sub-sub sections get overlooked so easy - and people then just post where they see fit. Let it be nice and clear where ye want these things to go into, please.




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03-28-2011 02:27 PM
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Willmark
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RE: AdvertisingWillmark 03-28-2011

Well we have pared back the sub sections quite a bit abd are generally not adding anymore. Were still discussing it as well

Thing is we are trying to be proactive BEFORE it becomes a problem here on CDO.




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03-28-2011 03:44 PM
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