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My first CD (RH) list, and then some more.
Author MessageMy first CD (RH) list, and then some more.
Bolg
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Post: #1
My first CD (RH) list, and then some more.Bolg 12-26-2009

[edit]I changed the topic title as it holds more than just my first list now.[/edit]

working towards 2250 pnt army that needs to be finished before 7th of February.

I'm planing to bring something like this:
Tainted Dwarfs.

Characters:
Chaos dwarf Lord(120) Handweapon, shield (2) Black Hammer of Hasnut(45)Armour of Furnace(45)
+2 Strenght 3+ save, 5+ ward, immune to fire.
(212)
Chaos Rune sorcerer (65) extra level (35) 2 dispel scrolls (50)
(150)
Dwarf Centaur Thane (100) Armour of Kazrah (30) Greatweapon (4)
(134)
Hobgoblin hero (40), handweapon, wolf(12), heavy armour (4) enhanted shield(10)
(66)
-562-

Core:
18 Tainted Dwarf Bulnderbusses, heavy armour, Blunderbuss (18x12), mucisian+ champion (20)
(236)

19 Tainted Dwarfs, heavy armour, shield, handweapon, full command (30)
(201)

10 Tainted Dwarf Bulnderbusses, heavy armour, Blunderbuss (10x12), mucisian(10)
(130)

9 Hobgoblin(2) wolfboys(9) handweapon, shield(1) light armour(1) champion+ mucisian (20)
(137)

10 Hobgoblin archers(2) handweapon, Bow(3)
(50)  

-754-
Special:

20 Black Orc’s (10) heavy armour, adittional handweapon(2), full command (33)
(273)

2 Hobgoblin Boltthrowers (30) 2x 2 crew, handweapons.
(60)

-333-
Rare:
9 Tainted Dwarf Centaurs(9x20), heavy armour(9x1), handweapon, shield great weapon full command(45).
(234)

EarthShaker
Warmachine, 3 crew – Heavy armour.
(110)
-344-

1993

The general goes in the unit CD's, the centour an wolfboy join their own unit. there is room for improvement, what would you do different?
I got 250 extra point left I thought maybe a warbanner in the centaur unit and a extra Death Rocket.

all comments are welcome, never played them yet.



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This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 01:08 PM by Bolg.

12-26-2009 08:55 PM
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Alan the evil
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Post: #2
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Alan the evil 12-27-2009

Hi...
First of all in ravening hordes the minimum number of hobbos in a unit is 10, even for wolf riders!!

I should drop hobbo hero for another sorcerer: you have a weak magic both in defence and offence.

I see that you like big units of BO and BC... I usually use them in little unit.
this allow me to save up points and get wider unit of warrior: with T4 and 3+ AS and Ld9 (10 with general) if you can outnumber enemy it will be pretty hard to defeat you army... mainly if you put a BSB (you can use the BC hero for this, dropping the GW for sword of might) in the middle of the CD units...

12-27-2009 07:40 AM
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Bolg
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Post: #3
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-27-2009

A Thanx. 10 minimum, even for wolfboys totally overlooked that, I was even considering a unit of 6 wolfboys with bows and a musician, used a similar unit whit my gobbo army and its great for annoying stuff but that unit is completely no option now.

I'm still thinking as a vanilla dwarf here so I forgot I only have 3 dispel dice with this list, but taking another sorcerer as scroll carrier takes loads of points and a hero slot. I have a big unit of BC and the wolfboys so I have something fast and hard that can actually charge. the problem with my normal dwarfs is that people tend to ignore my general unit and with movement 3 thats pretty frustrating. there is no ingnoring the BC's. but taking a smaller unit will leave a lot of extra points for other stufff.  

Have you got a army list I can look at, couldn't find to many as a reference here? thanx again for the feedback.



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12-27-2009 08:51 AM
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Baggronor
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Post: #4
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Baggronor 12-27-2009

Have you considered a Sorcerer Lord? He provides decent magical protection and can throw some magic of his own around, plus he's still Ld 10 and has access to nice spell lores.

A CD Hero is the best foot-slogger general, as he is also Ld10 but dirt cheap. Give him Armour of Gazrakh and a great weapon and you have a Ld10 general for less than 100pts. Mental. Who cares if he gets avoided, he's quality, he's actually cheaper than the bonus VPs for killing him Cheers!

The large unit of Centaurs will attract a lot of fire, as they are the only fast credible threat, and they will die fast to shooting of any kind in my experience. Most people use them in a support role, as Alan said. If you want big units to play aggressively with, then I would consider 2 units of them to really go for it.

For the Black Orcs, I would try a wider frontage, maybe 6x3 or even 7x2. These guys rely on doing damage to generate combat resolution so you want as many as possible in contact. Ideally they would go into the flank of a unit fighting CD warriors.

I would try to get 2 blocks of 25 chaos dwarf warriors to ensure you have a solid line and don't get done by fear-causers (no rune of stoicism here Happy). Then little units of hobgoblins in front of the main line, to flee through the bulk of the army (without causing panic Happy) and give you the charge, or simply redirect enemies and open them up to counter charges.

Blunderbusses are a tricky one, I use them in 15s but they either do really well or they just die. Great for killing shades/wardancers lurking in woods.



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12-27-2009 10:19 AM
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Bolg
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Post: #5
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-27-2009

Baggronor Wrote:
Have you considered a Sorcerer Lord? ........ (more greet input here)


Oh, that's a lot of good feedback I must consider! taking a Sorcerer Lord will take up the same amount of character slots and still gives 4 dispel dice. But that raises a practical question, may he have magical armour? or is the talisman of protection and the Black gem his only option?
Rule wise you are allowed to make the CD hero your lord right?

Putting the Black O's 6x3, never thought of that, but its a good option 2 extra attacks. should I give them shields for extra protection against shooting?

Dropping the 2nd unit of Blunderbusses and bringing a 2nd unit of warriors, model wise a much better option.

And I know bringing a large unit of centaurs is a bit of a gamble, the wolfboys are there just to ad some shielding and support. but a small unit cant really do a punch I think. converting a second unit, good idea, but havent got the models and then I cant bring my 'cute' Earthshaker (:



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12-27-2009 12:33 PM
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Bolg
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Post: #6
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-27-2009

2nd attempt, with sorcerer lord this time:

Characters:
Tainted Dwarf Rune Sorcerer (190) extra level (35) 2 dispel scrolls (50) Black Gem of Gnar(35) Talisman of protection (15)
Level 4 sorcere, 6+ wardsave.
(325)
Taithed Dwarf Thane (60) Armour of Gazrakh (30) great weapon (4)*
*General 1+ save.
(94)
Dwarf Centaur Thane (100) Armour of Furnace(45) Greatweapon (4) shield (2)
(151)
Hobgoblin hero (40), handweapon, wolf(12), heavy armour (4) enchanted shield(10)
(66)
-636-

Core:
18 Tainted Dwarf Bulnderbusses, heavy Armour, Blunderbuss (18x12), mucisian+ champion (20)
(236)

19 Tainted Dwarfs(9), heavy armour, shield, handweapon, full command (30) WarBanner (25)
(226)

19 Tainted Dwarfs, heavy armour, shield, handweapon, full command (30)
(201)

10 Hobgoblin(2) wolfboys(9) handweapon, shield(1) light armour(1) champion+ musician (20)
(150)

10 Hobgoblin archers(2) handweapon, Bow(3)
(50)  

10 Hobgoblin archers(2) handweapon, Bow(3)
(50)  

-913-
Special:

18 Black Orc’s (13) heavy armour, additional handweapon(2), full command (33)
(303)


2 Hobgoblin Boltthrowers (30) 2x 2 crew, handweapons.
(60)

-363-
Rare:
9 Tainted Dwarf Centaurs(9x20), heavy armour(9x1), handweapon, shield great weapon full command(45).
(234)

EarthShaker
Warmachine, 3 crew – Heavy armour.
(110)
-344-

2256



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This post was last modified: 12-27-2009 10:24 PM by Bolg.

12-27-2009 02:51 PM
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Border Reiver
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Post: #7
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Border Reiver 12-27-2009

I like this second list.  You have a reasonable magic defence, an excellent general and two fighty heroes to smack things about.

The archers can provide reasonable mid range firepower and two cheap units to claim table quarters.

Have you considered putting the hobgoblin hero in the unit of black orcs?  You can use him as a "dart" or guided missile and he can leave the unit to do some assassinations on enemy spellcasters, or boost your fighting line with some additional attacks.


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12-27-2009 03:15 PM
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Bolg
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Post: #8
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-27-2009

Border Reiver Wrote:
The archers can .... claim table quarters.

Have you considered putting the hobgoblin hero in the unit of black orcs?


That what the archers are for (:

No I totally didnt consider that, but as my wolfboy unit has to be 10 man strong anyways this is a great  tactical tip. thanx.



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12-27-2009 03:38 PM
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Uzkul Werit
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Post: #9
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Uzkul Werit 12-27-2009

Word of warning with the Black Orcs. Get ready for them to be shot to bits. I used to use them and they were an arrow magnet, as they don't really have the armour to withstand most stuff.


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12-27-2009 05:53 PM
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Bolg
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Post: #10
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-27-2009

I'll keep that in mind, I can give them shield for 18 point giving them a 4+ save against S3 shooting.



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12-27-2009 10:47 PM
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qwe50
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RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.qwe50 12-29-2009

I doubt the Black orc's will be shoot much in a list with 9BC+hero,

You should drop some of the blunderbusses and make a unit of 12 or 15 with nothing - the points you save can be used for a sword of might to u hobgoblin hero (S5 is so much better than 4) and more dwarfs in you units.

12-29-2009 06:22 AM
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Bolg
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Post: #12
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-29-2009

Sounds good might just take that advice thanx.

and I might just swap Armour of Gazrakh + Armour of Furnace(45) around, I really like somekind of ward save for my general.

Played my first game against chaos warriors yesterday, got my ass kicked. The Earthshaker is awesome, even if you scatter of target he still slows them down. nan If i hadnt forgotten the most important shooting face I would have done more damage but there is nothing in my army that can take on chosen warriors of chaos.



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12-29-2009 07:04 AM
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Bassman
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RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bassman 12-29-2009

Chosen warriors on foot? That's why you need to get rid of champion and musician on blunderbusses... get rid of 3 more blunderbusses and you have enough points for two units of ten hobgoblins. Send them to the chosen... they'll waste an entire battle to get rid of them and get..... 40 victory points! lol Happy

In the meanwhile death rocket knights, bolt throwerize big stuff and blunderbuss to death marauders. Your chaos dwarfs and bull centaurs can get rid of the rest Happy

Well, not so easy as written but could be done Wink


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bassman spoke... and I do agree!!


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12-29-2009 05:37 PM
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Bolg
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RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 12-29-2009

Jup 16 chosen warriors on foot it all started good with slowing them down with the earth shaker, but not enough casualties were done, the got to close I slammed my black orcs in them killing one, they killed 8! then I slammed the centaurs with bull hero in them all waving great weapons, doing 6 wounds but they made 4 saves on a 5+ and then killed the unit and ran over the hero. a true massacre. next time i'll focus all my shooting on them and i'll try to annoy them with hobgobbos.

Will drop the champion from the blunders for sure, and maybe the musician to (but I love the musician rules)

thanx for the advice.



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This post was last modified: 12-29-2009 08:59 PM by Bolg.

12-29-2009 08:59 PM
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qwe50
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Post: #15
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.qwe50 01-03-2010

Well if you play against heavy armour chaos. You Lord should be a BC lord with Black hammer or Obsidant blade + armour of gazarakh.
That way you will have more than shooting who can take down e.g knights.

Also renember you BC's are not good against opponents that hit back.

01-03-2010 11:15 AM
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Bolg
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Post: #16
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 01-14-2010

Taking a BC lord, that is something I must try at least once. (actually thinking of expanding the unit even more (say 12 or 15 Bc's in total) but I havent got more elven steeds to make the same conversion.

Played a few games, best result a minor loss, tweaked my list a bit, this is how it looks now. I will change it in the future but this is the list I will play for now (cos that's what I'm painting for a tournament).

Characters:
Tainted Dwarf Rune Sorcerer (190) 2 dispel scrolls (50) Black Gem of Gnar(35) Talisman of protection (15)
Level 3 sorcerer 6+ wardsave.
(290)
Taithed Dwarf Thane (60) Armour of Furnace(45) great weapon (4) shield (2)
4+ save/5+ ward save.
(111)
Dwarf Centaur Thane (100) Armour of Gazrakh (30) Greatweapon (4)
(134)
Hobgoblin hero (40), handweapon, wolf(12), heavy armour (4) enchanted shield(10) sword of might (20)
(86) -621-

Core:
18 Tainted Dwarf Blunderbusses, heavy Armour, Blunderbuss (18x12), musician(10)
(226)

19 Tainted Dwarfs(9), heavy armour, shield, handweapon, full command (30) WarBanner (25)
(226)

19 Tainted Dwarfs, heavy armour, shield, handweapon, full command (30)
(201)

10 Hobgoblin(2) wolfboys(9) handweapon, shield(1) light armour(1) champion+ musician (20)
Animosity.
(150)

10 Hobgoblin archers(2) handweapon, Bow(3)
Animosity.
(50)  
-843-
Special:

18 Black Orc’s (13) heavy armour, additional handweapon/greatweapon full command (38)
Armed to da teath, quell animosity.
(272)

3 Hobgoblin Boltthrowers (30) 2x 2 crew, handweapons.
(90)

Death Rocket, 2 crew heavy armour.
(80)
-442-

Rare:
9 Tainted Dwarf Centaurs(9x20), heavy armour(9x1), handweapon, shield great weapon full command(45).
(234)

EarthShaker
Warmachine, 3 crew – Heavy armour.
(110)
-344-

Total: 2250
The black orcs are now the correct black orcs (used wrong edition book first) got shield and are still cheaper than before, haven't figured out how to use the unit on the battlefield tough.
I dropped the 4th lever of the sorcerer, he is only there to get the anti magic dice and that drops his point cost a bit. The Black Gem does wonders when you put him in a unit of CD's when the get charged, challenge or except a challenge from the scariest big guy in the other unit, cancel all his attacks and than win the combat with static combat res. (unfortunately, you can only do this once to your friends but the tactic should work fine in tournaments).
The sword of might for the goblin hero works pretty well too, he can charge a unit of 5 horsemen of some sort challenge the champion and if he kills the champion 2x win the combat. or else just be annoying and mach blocking. (i also moved him out of the unit, so if they fail the animosity test he can still wonder along on his own.)

I also dropped one of the hobgoblin units and got myself an Death Rocket, really like fighting with 2 rocklobbers.

I could still drop the champion of the Blunderbusses, but then I would have 16 point to spend (on what?), and I need at least 20 to take some naked hobgoblins.

I've tried Death magic for now, when I still played Vanilla Dwarfs people always took Metal so I came to hate that lore and dont like to use it myself. Like the potential of Doom and Darkness. And I might try to use the fire lore in the future.

All thoughts are welcome.
[edit] I updated the list with the most resend adjustments (extra boltthtrower for the shields of the Black orcs and the unit champion of the blunders)



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This post was last modified: 01-31-2010 05:56 PM by Bolg.

01-14-2010 10:55 PM
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Bolg
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Post: #17
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 01-26-2010

I've completely had it with the Hobgoblin hero, he cant hit a thing and even passing his 2+ armour save is a big challenge.

Maybe I'll swap him for a BSB to go with the sorcerer unit.
CD hero (60), BSB(25) heavy armour(4) shield(2) = 91 the gobbo is 81 so if I drop the blunder champion I can just afford him. And if I can free another 8 point he can have the enchanted shield. (and if he goes in the unit warriors I can drop a warrior (9points).)



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This post was last modified: 01-26-2010 12:13 PM by Bolg.

01-26-2010 12:13 PM
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qwe50
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Post: #18
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.qwe50 01-27-2010

How happy are you with you Black orc's ?  - you could change them to normal orc's with a strong hero.

Points availeble: 81 + 290 + 30 = 401p

23 x orc's with full command and shields. @168
+ Bull centaur BSB, Armour of Gazrakh, Sword of might. @175

168+175 = 343p

points left: 401-343 = 58p

new gear for the other BC hero

Dwarf Centaur Thane, Heavy armour, Enchanted shield, Gauntlets of Bazarakh the Cruel, Greatweapon @143p  (extra cost 39p)    

58p-39p = 19p left

01-27-2010 04:42 AM
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Bolg
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Post: #19
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 01-27-2010

Wow Thanx. I actually havent got a unit of vanilla orcs, but thats a interesting suggestion.
and as I'm very happy with the one BC hero, taking a second is a very obvious choice. thanx a bunch for the tip.
now I know what to convert and paint next.



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This post was last modified: 01-27-2010 11:03 AM by Bolg.

01-27-2010 11:02 AM
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Bolg
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Post: #20
RE: Need feedback om my first CD (RH) list.Bolg 01-31-2010

My Hobgoblin hero again didnt make it past turn 2, but I have decided to give him a chance to prove himself on the comming tournament, so he'll stay in the list.

But i've come to realize that the Boltthrowers are pretty damn good (especially for those points). and if i drop the shields of the Black orcs and the Blunder champion I can bring at least one extra. will try that Wednesday (:

( I updated the above list, no use posting it again)



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This post was last modified: 01-31-2010 05:58 PM by Bolg.

01-31-2010 05:43 PM
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